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Linux is not ready for prime time
Fri, 07/27/2007 - 18:37 — Rodnolinux
I'm with the webmasters on this 1000%. It's not that I'm against Linux, its that I can't be for it.
The OS is just impossible because you have to know about a gazillion commands to make it do what you want, and who has time for that?
The apps software that comes with it as open source is distinctly second rate, which explains why it is free, and there is a dearth of specialized software for particular uses. Cross-platform emulators are lame.
The supposed benefits of customizing seem to be non-existent for home users, especially since customizing does not seem to be to the effect of making the apps any better.
The desktops are poor clones of Windows, and are counterintuitive to actually use.
The fact that downtime is reduced because of fewer viruses, worms or stability issues is offset when you add back the extra learning time, research time, and other chores necessitated by Linux, not the least of them being frequent need to repartition and/or format hard disks if you are going to play around with it. It is also not so clear that Linux users are immune from such hazards, or if they just have a reprieve for as long as they fly under the radar.
Linux websites and helpsites are filled with arrogant Linux users who will actually be angry if you question the usefulness of vitality of their system, and there is no real professional help available.
Ultimately, the problem with Linux is that free is not the same as cheap. Someday that may change, but today there is lots of expense attached to a Linux install, and not a lot of upside, especially since I found myself surprised by its difficulty and/or its impossibility even when reading instructions from a $30 book. The world ought to know that there are opinions on both sides, not just the hype of Linux lovers. The Internet is filled with lovers of things -- their soccer heros, their bands, and on an on. There needs to be balance from people not so smitten with something.
In fact, the words "whylinuxsucks" won't google to well, so I'm suggesting lots of use of this phrase so people can find you more easily: "Should I choose Linux?"
I have a Linux netbook and a
I have a Linux netbook and a 2yr old Macbook Pro.
it's currently a big waste of time to use/configure/install Linux. It's a philosophy, this Linux movement. And I agree that the Intel/MS/Apple-cartel has been making fools of us for too long (by forcing everyone to update their CPUs every 18 months with their BS) Linux offers a way out. it can run more efficiently on older hardware, I get it.
Maybe when my Mac gets older and I dont want to give Apple any more hardware money --- only then would it possibly be worth all the time and effort that MonkeyBoy_Linux distros require to install and maintain.
if you have a current hardware config with a decent/recent graphics card and sufficient RAM, use Windows or OS X.
Linux fanboys and their smugness is mostly based on their memorization of command line coding. that's cool. i have other things to do w my life.
Or if you want a job working in a refrigerated server-room, go ahead and learn Linux . you can get paid decent $ to configure other people's servers for them. and you dont have to interface with people!
If you want to use your computer like an appliance, where yuo turn it on and use it to get things done....don't mess w/ Linux.
Дрессировщик
Дрессировщик выпил, тигр закусил.
Проблема не в том, что люди размножаются, как кролики, а в том, что они не мрут, как мухи.
Когда государству что-то от нас нужно, оно называет себя Родиной!
Не смог исправить тормоза хоть гудок громче сделай...
You said it, droog.
You said it, droog.
The desktops are poor clones
The desktops are poor clones of Windows, and are counterintuitive to actually use.
This is a pretty easy one to demonstrate. Just look at the top most downloaded themes on http://www.gnome-look.org/ They're all imitations of Vista or OS X.
Why?? You all hate Windows so much that you need to make your computer look... just like it?
Innovate, please! Come up with something even better than Windows or OS X. Leapfrog them in look and usability. If you can't come up with a better design than copycatting some other OS, then Linux is doomed to fail.
http://www.gnome-look.org/con
http://www.gnome-look.org/content/show.php/Shiki-Colors?content=86717
Ah, more rants from the
Ah, more rants from the ignorant.
Why do people like you get so exasperated by linux? You've used an OS that would have taken more than one billion dollars to develop - and you got it (most likely) for FREE. So if you don't like it, just use whatever else you were using before.
The thing about people like you (and those who run this loser site) is that it's not enough for you to have tried it and not like it. You now have to prove that IT SUCKS because YOU couldn't figure out how to use it. It HURTS YOU that you couldn't use it. Why is that?
I bet one of you morons thought it was a good idea to start this 'Why Linux Sucks' dot org. And then you have the nerve to say that "the typical user doesn't have time to waste on an OS." You also have the nerve to pretend that your site is constructive. Look at yourselves. Pathetic.
Just use Windows, or whatever else. There, problem solved.
And comments like this don't
And comments like this don't help perpetuate linux as fun,easy, or user friendly. I've realized that overall the only reason I keep linux installed is for security auditing, playing with python, perl. There is no point in plugging in my midi devices and having a go in linux due to lack of a proper x64 RTC Kernel that runs well or more important support for my D.A.C. hardware. Simply put recording my guitar,synthesizers,etc in realtime is or was such a C.F. At the time that I moved on from ubuntu studio 64 and 32. Why do it the hard way when I can simply do it faster and more efficiently in my windows partition with Reason,Soft Synths, and Samplitude instead of Ardour and JACK.
More accurately most users become tired quite quickly of having to run sometimes obscure and potentially hazardous commands(due to their own Ignorance or those guiding them), and either "ruin" their installation or wind up in many of the undesirable positions new users are familiar with.
In conclusion, I don't advocate for or against linux really. It does what it was originally intended for well, however the most recent advances will seemingly always be behind what we'd like them to be.
I'm so so horribly used to
I'm so so horribly used to comments like this from the psychic vampires who spout linux dogma, in spite of all the evidence against it.
Am I alone is suspecting that the person who wrote this comment, and all those other linux experts you encounter on all the other forums are, in fact, secret fifth-columnists in the pay of microsoft? What better way could there be of guaranteeing that microsoft will never have any real competition? Fill the forums with arrogant, bullying, violent comments, from people who claim to represent the devoted core of linux users and programmers, and - bingo! - microsoft wins again.
I find it inconceivable that anyone could ever, seriously, defend linux. Even the average linux fan, stuck as they plainly are in the year 1985, must - MUST - be able to see how utterly unusable it is?
And how dare anyone criticize a fellow human being for not understanding nor having memorized the practically infinite, often arbitrary, commands needed to perform even relatively simple operations? Pardon us for not wanting to take a degree in advanced computer science before we dare to call ourselves so much as a noobie.
"Linux websites and
"Linux websites and helpsites are filled with arrogant Linux users who will actually be angry if you question the usefulness of vitality of their system, and there is no real professional help available."
You have just proven exactly that dude!
Often the solution to a
Often the solution to a particular problem comes from a technically proficient user, who would by using 'vi' from the command line, and the command line and such. So you get such a solution. Often I've seen convoluted solutions to problems given, when simpler ones would have sufficed. See, with Windows, there is ONLY one way to solve a problem, so its always 'click this and that'. With Linux, there are many many ways to alter the system, but the one offered may not be the easiest. Usually, it isn't. Hence the problem. I read howto's ages ago on configuring dial up getting flustered, only to find out later there was a GUI program I could download (effortlessly) which set it all up for me very easily. I hear people say "open a terminal, type this and that" when in reality, it could have been done all through the GUI. Simply open up the KDE file manager in root mode, click on "/", on "etc" on "kibbles.conf", change this line, click save. Then click on "Administration", "services", "kibbles"-> restart and you're done. Often there is a windowsesque way, but the people offering help are offereing it THEIR way. Thats fine, but they should realise that the user might find it easier to use the GUI tools provided, not the command line, even though they might find the opposite.
It is actually far easier to use Linux than it is made out to be. The problem is, that often the 'howto's simply dont make good use of the easy to use GUI text editors and other GUI tools available. The newbie doesn't realise that there is an easier way, so they think that this is the ONLY way. Most of the time, it isn't. Quite simply, Linux has been made user friendly, but many of the howtos and instructions on the net simply dont make use of GUI tools because those writing the instructions dont use them.
But one party doesn't put themselves in the users shoes and think of how it could be solved more, um, graphically, and the other party doesn't expend the effort to think a little and ask 'is there another way I can do this?' using this editor, or that file manager?
In my experience when the
In my experience when the newbies ask questions or about other ways of doing things they're either abandoned or discouraged from doing so.
*Insert linux super newbie flame post here"
I like the "It would have
I like the "It would have cost 1 billion, or 10 billion" to develop argument, cracks me up each time. I've read $10 billion elsewhere.
Let me ask everyone this. If you were a software company wanting to sell an OS, would you spend a BILLION dollars to develop this product to try to sell? One that when available for FREE still has yet to reach 1% of desktops?
I can think of better ways to benefit humanity with 1 or 10 billion dollars worth of man hours. Whats even funnier, is you have to add up all the man hours spend repackaging software again and again and again for all the different distros each time they update (which is quite often), all the hours patching, forking, dead projects, abandoned projects, re-writes, the useless KDE 4, etc. Linux truly is an enourmous time sink.
Just imagine, if they just has one Linux OS instead of 100 distros, and maybe just a few compatible variants (like LinuxLite, LinuxServer, etc) and there was binary compatibility so as soon as you made a copy of the program available, you were done, then all those people maintaining repositories and software and packages could be helping old ladies across the street, housing the homeless, feeding the hungry, working in soup kitchens, etc, etc.
But no, we have to put up with pony tailed hackers with no social skills sitting in their parents basements scoffing down chips and sodas, complaining that we don't appreciate how they are helping the world by spending their lives starting at a screen coding for wobbly windows. I'm sorry I don't appreciate the effort, I mean, I really do. Oh, and rotating icons on KDE 4, thank you for the sacrifice you made...!
So why the hell are you here
So why the hell are you here if you love linux so damn much? You pretty well just proved the OP's point about how experienced linux users are arrogant jerks who do nothing but get mad. I am certified in linux but still hate it. I only got the cert because I had to take the class and as a result had to take the exam cert. After that I refused to ever touch it again. IMO you're just a cheapass who wants to use 2nd rate aps. Move out of the basement and buy a real OS.
You want to know why we
You want to know why we don't like Linux? It's because we shouldn't have to wrestle an operating system to the ground and strangle it into submission. And don't try the "It's free, you shouldn't complain" argument. If Linux is supposed to be a serious operating system, it's time it was compared to it's competition. And you're right. We don't like it, so we should just use whatever we were using before. But we should also be able to say why we think Linux isn't ready yet. You can't improve something by singing only praises.
But we're not allowed to voice criticism of linux? Why not? If I gave you a piece of fruit for free, and it was rotten, would you not say "this is a rotten piece of fruit?" According to you, I should stare at you in contempt and say "It sucks because you can't enjoy it right. It HURTS YOU that you couldn't enjoy this fruit." At this point, you'd either drop the fruit, or throw it in my face. Why can't we do the same with Linux?
And yes, it was a good idea to start this website. At least now new users will be able to find some criticism of your glorious OS instead of a shining wall of praise. And then you have the nerve to say that "we shouldn't raise criticism."
Just let us complain and laugh at this site instead of get mired in arguments.
"The apps software that
"The apps software that comes with it as open source is distinctly second rate, which explains why it is free"
Have you heard of audacity? Or how about OpenOffice? Theres also the GIMP, and many other programs that are just as good as their competitors, if not better.
"The supposed benefits of customizing seem to be non-existent for home users"
What? So first you complain about linux is not exactly the way you want it and now you DON'T want customization? Help me im confused here.
"The desktops are poor clones of Windows, and are counterintuitive to actually use"
Yeah because in order to shut down my computer I really thought it made sense to click "Start" (yes, that would be sarcasm there)
"not the least of them being frequent need to repartition and/or format hard disks if you are going to play around with it."
I dont believe you ever have to partiton/format your HD other than install (unless you want to) and this is the same in windows
"It is also not so clear that Linux users are immune from such hazards"
Linux is more secure because of its advanced file permissions and the fact that when using the computer you arent parading around as the admin (called root)
"there is no real professional help available."
Correct!!! and there wont be untill you start paying them. Many distros come with paid support and still end up costing much less than windows.
"but today there is lots of expense attached to a Linux install"
Have you ever tried to install windows? Probably not but it is much more difficult. Your internet wont even work intil you find the correct drivers. Have fun doing that without your internet working :)
That's cute, another raging
That's cute, another raging linux user. Funny that I've installed windows many times over and not had this problem, but my guess is you're such a 1337 linux user that choose poor hardware or didn't build your own pc and buy craptastic/craptacular Dell or worse.
Openoffice and GIMP are
Openoffice and GIMP are available for windows so whats your point and I've installed 95,98 and Xp and never had the problems I had with linux. At least for windows there are drivers for linux if you don't have the right sort of hardware good luck!
GIMP is a bit convoluted but
GIMP is a bit convoluted but OK.
Open Office, for a free Office suite is pretty good. It certaintly meets most peoples "Office Suite" requirements.
I don't follow - OpenOffice
I don't follow - OpenOffice and GIMP aren't second-rate because they're available for Windows and Linux. In fact, they're not second rate at all. Anyways, that doesn't even matter - they originated in Solaris and Linux, respectively.
Linux has drivers too... they're kernel modules. In the incredibly unlikely event you need to specify them by hand, you have to type in 'modload'. This is an incredible contrast to the Windows method, where you have to type in 'regsvr32'.
That's funny, never had to
That's funny, never had to manually install a windows driver. Another awesome windows tricks. I can actually install from a multi disk set without unmounting and remounting every disc....cutting edge eh?
"In the incredibly unlikely
"In the incredibly unlikely event you need to specify them by hand, you have to type in 'modload'. This is an incredible contrast to the Windows method, where you have to type in 'regsvr32'."
If they're the same thing, then what's the problem? And yes, Linux has drivers. Just not ones that are as well-coded as they could be, and not as many as Windows has.
I have been using Ubuntu for
I have been using Ubuntu for only 2 years now and even though I see where it could be better I also have learned a lot about it and have come out without many of the problems that many here state they have.
I think many people don't know where or how to look for help. I use IRC chat and forums a lot, as well as the power of Google.
That being said there is plenty of room for Linux to grow ... but I would not go as far as saying that I am going to reinstall Vista because Ubuntu Linux sucks ... no way ... Vista is diabolical!
I have to agree with you...I
I have to agree with you...I just want a computer that works. I can't browse the internet without firefox crashing because flash is so unstable (I've tried many reinstalls of varies flash players, but they either suck or crash). I have to run virtualbox to run office 2007 because it doesn't quite work in wine yet and my experience with openoffice has been subpar, especially working on projects with mahy other people using office on windows...you format something to look nice, and it ends up looking completely different when they open it... Also, my nvidia graphics cards causes the screen to flicker when changing performance levels, so you have to enable a hack to just keep it at one performance level (unfortunately, the only level you can keep it at is the max, so now my laptop sucks batteries and runs really hot). But I can't even save batteries by suspending the laptop by closing the lid, because it completely locks up when it resumes (can't even issue the kernel commands to reboot) The only thing I liked while using Ubuntu was Amarok...great music player. I'll be reinstalling Vista this week because I can't stand troubleshooting all this crap with Ubuntu...
"my experience with
"my experience with openoffice has been subpar, especially working on projects with mahy other people using office on windows"
Perhaps thats because their not the same program?
Oh and have fun with that vista install. If you havent done it before it will be an adventure.
Since when is an adventure
Since when is an adventure considered rebooting with an optical disk in the drive? Only time you'd have issues were in the early adopters that were too stupid to check hardware compatibility before buying/upgrading.
I have read a host of
I have read a host of articles, some positive, some negative,and some by fanboys ( Over zealous adolescence )
But I have to simple agree on this count... I have used Ubuntu and was all exited about the claims to fame with this OS. Hehe...right, easy to install, update, and get around, this is where the fun ended. Driver issues, Rythmbox crash, stumbling reboot, and those famous line commands.
I have been a strong believer that you get what you pay for, Linux is not ready for prime time, period. I checked up on the app install list to see a bunch of little cheezy apps that would never fly with Apple or Microsoft. Mind you there are some rather good ones in that list, but you have to look.
I have had some hard boots, crappy performance and a huge waste of my time and energy. I am running a recent HP laptop with all the bells and whistles, no excuse here.I have returned to Vista SP1 and am totally relieved. It works !!
The apps are top notch and usable !! Same goes for Apple !
Ubuntu and Linux in general have a ways to go before becoming viable in my life, hey if it works for you go for it !
In my eyes its a pain and a fruitless effort. A kind word to all those scattered developers out in the world, INTEGRATE !Come together to make Linux a powerhouse, as it is its a scattered effort of many independants and the end result is all these nagging glitches and cheezy apps in a lopsided package. Learn from the big boys,if you want to play act as a team, not a bunch of loosely connected solo artists. Imagine if all those ideas came under one roof and worked as a team..
I would pay for this OS !! You get what you pay for.....
Ok if you would pay for it
Ok if you would pay for it then take a trip down to your neighboorhood circuit ciry and pick up a copy of ubuntu 8.04 for $20. There are also numerous websites that will happily sell you something that they got for free. In fact ill sell it to you. (yes this post is sarcastic, but you really can buy it at all those places (except me))
I have been using ubuntu for over a year now and have had zero problems with it. I also am the type of person who likes to mess around with stuff and therefore am MORE, not less, likely to brake it. As for command line stuff, get over it, or just find a nice GUI frontend, there are many avalaiable for almost every command line tool there is.
I've used ubuntu before
I've used ubuntu before settling into backtrack 4. And over the years that ubuntu is a miserable and at times half broken OS. Why follow advice from somebody who can't discern between braking and breaking. If you haven't broken it yet you really aren't trying hard enough. If anything I and others fail to see how you could know much by ubuntu if it's obvious you lack the technical aptitude to speak intilligently on the subject.
Ubuntu is overrated. It's
Ubuntu is overrated. It's the undeserving poster boy. It's as if people say 'use Ubuntu' because it has a reputation, an image. I've used it, and didn't see it different from the other distros. I used the live version, because the installable version (the exact same version) didn't run at all on my machine. Saw it at the 'free software day' exhibit in Melbourne and didn't see how it was so different, or great. It's like a new lemon flavoured soft drink that everyone raves about, and it tastes pretty much like the others.
Whats the fuss about?
I made a post on a distro which is far better for newer users, Puppy Linux. It's actually different.
You have good Ideas but you
You have good Ideas but you are 100% wrong.
Windows is not ready for Prime time since it can't program like Linux. Mac is not ready for Prime time since it can't play games like Windows. And this is just a basic list, I could go on and write a really boring post about which is better at what.
Linux is not for every, Windows is not for everyone, Mac is not for everyone. Do you want to know which Operating System is for everyone? None. If you want to know, then you have more than a hundred questions to answer to find out. Offer me a million dollars to say one and I would say Windows just because it is used in most business not because it is the best for you.
The command line is the strength of Linux and if you do not wish to learn it, well with systems like Ubuntu you can be fine (but miss out of the power). Yes there are millions of commands but you learn them and take the ones you need to give you lots of control over your system. If you don't want to learn the command line then that maybe one reason to say no to Linux.
Viruses can affect any computer, Linux, Mac, Windows you name it. Why windows has such a bad virus reputation is that by default the administrator account is always used and shared files by non-administrators affect the administrator. This is one reason why Linux and Mac are more secure because you are by default not an administrator (root). Unlike Linux in Mac you can't be an administrator. Windows also has a lot of users making it a smart idea to make a virus for what people use. Finally why Linux is more secure is that unlike Mac and Windows Linux is open source. All Mac and Windows have to do on a security problem is say nothing where as in Linux the Community will fix the problem since they can find it. Finally Mac users your firewall is proven to be just as bad as the default windows firewall.
Linux does not have support like Mac and Windows does. Yes Linux has online forum support which can be good and bad, but Mac and Windows do have lots of professional support. This again makes a big difference in which operating system to get. Do you like looking for information and fixing problems your self by reading online documents? If you don't Linux is not a good idea. Note that some Linux companies such as Ubuntu do give you professional support that you will need to pay for.
Games work on both Mac and Linux that work on Windows. Mac you need Boot Camp and Linux you need wine. This could get casual gamers going but hardcore would not want to use those programs as they could cause poor performance, graphical glitches, and finally in online games with Punk Busters a boot or ban. Yes there are lots of native Mac and Linux games but first most are available for Windows two. Second just not enough true commercial popular games. Third, again there are way more games for Windows.
Music and Video files are not in Linux without getting a License for them which you may have to buy (DO NOT TAKE MY WORD FOR THIS). Yes you can download song with Ubuntu music player but you can't play Itune music and DVDs.. Although Media player and Itunes should work with wine (DO NOT TAKE MY WORD FOR THIS) still you could go though problems getting them to run.
If you want to make a movie or record a song you need Mac period. Yes Windows can do the job but based off of what I herd and knowing that Macs come with a music player it seems clear Mac is better. (DO NOT TAKE MY WORD FOR THIS) Again I may be wrong.
Programing all I have to say is Linux has the tools and is designed for programmers unlike Mac and Windows where you must download free or commercial tools. Open source files let you reed other peoples programs to learn and change it to see your affects. And because Linux is all open source you could change the whole system.
Not all hardware is supported like how it is in Mac and Windows. Because Mac makes hardware and Windows is used by everyone they have easy hardware support. Linux runs on many machines but may not support your wireless card and/or printer. The Linux live CD would let you know if your hardware is supported though. If your hardware is not supported get ready to use the command line and program.
When it comes down to office work, all are perfect choices. Linux with Firefox for internet and Open Office (oppenoffice.org) you can create word files and surf the web just like Windows and Mac. Additionally Linux has programs for email like Outlook. However most business don't try to save money by using Linux for free and just follow all other businesses and use Microsoft. This does make Windows better but being used to Windows would help you at work. However if you run a company maybe trying a small switching to Linux would be a bad idea. If it works change everything and if not it would be easy to switch back. YES YOU CAN DUAL BOOT BOTH OPERATING SYSTEMS.
Okay let me say one thing about the switch, is it is an adjustment to something new. First of all most open source programs work on your Mac and Windows. But the switch still takes a long time. Does this mean Linux is not user friendly? No it is just different. A motorcycle is not a car, Linux is not Windows. If Linux is just like Windows then Microsoft would have no business.
Finally the last problem with Linux is standardization. The only thing that is standard for each Linux distributor is the Command line. This is why it is vital to learn the command line to really love Linux.
After reading this I hope you realize that the operating system for you is personal not one system works all. When you try on two size 10 shows both should be the same size but one feels better than the other. Same with operating system all go for the same goals but one just seems better for you. Do your studies on operating systems, read the good and bad articles of all, make a list of what you want, and then make your choice.
About me
I use Ubuntu Linux and Windows XP on my home computer and have herd a lot about Mac. I own an Xbox 360 so I have no problem with Microsoft. I don't consider my self a computer expert. I have created a network bridge in Windows to connect to Xbox live and still can't seem to find (nor take the time to understand) a way to do it on Linux.
Once again an incorrect
Once again an incorrect statement from a linux turd. You can only program or write code if you have compilers/interpreters installed, as well as their prerequisite libraries. Perhaps it is you who is full of crap? Either way you have to download FREE software unless your distribution was a preconfigured coder's suite.
Which takes more talent, learning to actually code or to frakenstein other people's original work into a barely cohesive pile of crap, tumbling downhill at an alarming rate?
Whether an OS is ready for
Whether an OS is ready for "Prime Time" has little to do with the apps. Just because Linux come with lots of apps bundled (oops, included) doesn't make it any 'better' than Windows or Mac, or even DOS. Yes, windows is ready, Mac is ready. Even DOS was. Why? Because they served their purpose, an OS which runs programs, allows the user to manage software, use hardware and provides a known interface (even if it is CLI like DOS). All the things you've discussed, like games, playing DVD's, etc are 'extras'. Thats software which runs on TOP of the OS, not the OS itself. Thats a mistake that people, both pro-Linux and anti-Linux make, they don't distinguish between the OS and the programs which run on top of the OS. But probably an honest mistake, as Linux distros draw no distinction between the two.
The problem with Linux, as an OS, isn't that there is no photoshop, or no support for this card, but as a basic OS, it falls short of a few fundamental OS functions, such as providing a consistent platform and having a reasonable life span (Linux distros become outdated way, way to quickly, necessitating frequent upgrades. Windows remains useful up to a decade after release). Computing nowadays sucks ass, unlike the good old days ;)
When it comes to programming
When it comes to programming tools it all depends on what distro you use, some don't come with programming tools by default which mean you have to download them. And again there are free devel tools in windows that aren't available for linux.
I seriously couldn't agree
I seriously couldn't agree more. Linux just plain sucks as a desktop O/S, plain and simple. Sure, it may be free, but the hidden cost of waddling through gazillion junk apps that's not worth the bytes it's zipped into is a waste of time. Not to mentioned you have to understand arabic like commands to get it to do something you want...and pray not screwed up something important. All these waste time and time is money.
I have XP, VISTA and UBUNTU in my PC sometime and i'm not impressed with UBUNTU no matter how hard i tried.
And recently, i've just added a Hackintosh to my PC and made it quad-boot.
Within a week...I'M SOLD FOR A MAC!!! I have absolutely no MAC experience before, but Leopard just rocks!!!
This is how an O/S should be! Innituative, fast (yes, it's much faster than UBUNTU in terms of boot up time, runnung on the same hardware), looks great and no crap command to waddle through (of course, being a hackintosh, we still have to waddle patches and stuff, which is minimal. A real mac have no such worries).
I'm a windows user since the 90's and I'm sold for a Mac in 1 week!!! There's no way Linux can even hope to match a Mac (in fact, not even windows).
As for the virus crap, as long as you put in a good anti-virus software and steady backup plan, there's no real problem. I hardly ever have a virus unless i go bit torrent pirated stuff like keygens....that is why...if you don't download pirated stuff, your chance of getting a critical virus is very low.
So i rate my 4 OSese:
1) MacOSX Leopard
2) XP
3) VISTA
4) Usucks...oops, i mean Ubuntu.
(if there is any consolation for Linux fanboys...MACOSX is based on UNIX..but the true power lies in the UI designed by Apple).
"MACOSX is based on
"MACOSX is based on UNIX..but the true power lies in the UI designed by Apple"
Do you even realize what your saying? All the hard work, the necessary stuff, is UNIX, the graphical part (part you could use your computer without) is Apple. Thats probably why its better, they had less work to do.
Also my list and reasons
1. Linux
It lets me do what I want. It doesn't let me brake it (easily, you still can brak it) and theres bash (this is a good thing)
2. Mac
It wont brake, but I also cant really do much. It does have bash like linux though
3. Windows
Viruses, no command line(this is a problem)
"MACOSX is based on
"MACOSX is based on UNIX..but the true power lies in the UI designed by Apple"
Do you even realize what your saying? All the hard work, the necessary stuff, is UNIX, the graphical part (part you could use your computer without) is Apple. Thats probably why its better, they had less work to do.
If it concept was that easy why didn't linux do that to begin with. That's the problem... their mindset.
Command line a problem?
Command line a problem? Guess you haven't heard of cygwin!
WINDOWS SUCKS. It really
WINDOWS SUCKS. It really really does. And i finally decided to replace the windows XP operating system on my 4 years old desktop (P4@2.4GHz,1MB,D865GBF,533MHzFSB,512MB DDR). I'd like to take this opportunity to reveal my experiences.
It's a sunday, no work, no friends around, just the perfect day to WASTE a lot of time re-inventing the wheel, and i'm fast to act on the opportunity after deferring my intentions for quite some time now. Let's get started..
Installation done(of-course i had to take the pain of resolving a million dependancies), and here he is, in all his glory, greeting me for the first time "welcome to openSUSE10.3". Now this is the part where it asks you to select the graphics drivers and resolutions, i select the older intel driver at 1024 x 786//60Hz, and it asks me to reboot(just as in windows). Rebooting.. Oh no, where on earth did i go wrong? The screen that comes up doesn't fill the display, it's like i have the PC running on my cell fone's screen! Okay, let's try to fix this, being new to linux I'm not very confidant about monkeying around with the command line interpreator, but thankfully i spotted ‘yast’. Okay, wonderful, they do have a button to configure my video driver, even better, the tool detected my intel graphics hardware and the make n model of my monitor too!! WOW, GOOD JOB. The resolution's set to exactly what i chose, 1024 x 786 at 60Hz, everything's perfect but for the actual display.. No, I won't give up this easy. Desperate, i started toying around with the settings, if the perfect setting didn't work, maybe an imperfect would.. A couple of misfires and then.. BINGO, THERE IT IS,it works if i select generic vesa instead of LG 500G (my monitors model no, printed on it's back and auto-detected by the OS). Dumb, but then-it's a sunday and i have nothing else to do !!
Now, we're almost done aren't we? I just need to create a new non-administrator account ("non-root" if that's what you people like to call it).Done, next? Hook up to the internet. I use my nokia N95 as a wireless modem, and in windows i load the nokia PC suite, select my country, select my network operator, and click "connect".
In linux, this is what I had to had to go thru:
(step-1):
# hcitool scan
(step-2):
#sdptool browse and see which channel is assigned to the service "Dial Up networking"
(step-3)
#rfcomm bind 0
(step-4):
#chdir /etc, vi wvdial.conf
(step 5):
NOW TYPE IN:
[Modem0]
Modem = /dev/rfcomm0
Baud = 230400
SetVolume = 0
DialCommand = ATDT
FlowControl = Hardware(CRTSCTS)
[Modem1]
Modem = /dev/ttyACM0
Baud = 230400
SetVolume = 0
DialCommand = ATDT
FlowControl = Hardware(CRTSCTS)
[Dialer GPRS]
Username = <>
Password = <>
Phone = *99***1#
Mode = 1
Inherits = Modem0
[Dialer DATA]
Username = <>
Password = <>
Phone = *99***1#
Mode = 1
Inherits = Modem1
[Dialer Defaults]
Modem = /dev/rfcomm0
Baud = 230400
Init1 = ATZ
Init2 = ATQ0 V1 E1 S0=0 &C1 &D2 +FCLASS=0
Init3 = AT+CGDCONT=1,"IP","airtelgprs.com"
ISDN = 0
Modem Type = Analog Modem
Area Code =
Phone = *99***1#
Username = <>
Password = <>
Ask Password = 0
Dial Command = ATDT
Stupid Mode = 1
Compuserve = 0
Force Address =
Idle Seconds = 3600
DialMessage1 =
DialMessage2 =
ISDN = 0
Auto DNS = 1
step 6:
when dialing via Bluetooth, #sudo wvdial GPRS
and when dialing over the USB cable, #sudo wvdial DATA
SUCCESS AT LAST.
WOW, there's firefox, and here comes google, sure that was easy, linux is getting easier by the day, and the all powerful command prompt is much better than the windows GUI, and it's a SUNDAY, no work-lotsa time to play.
Okay, so I finally kissed bill goodbye. Feels great, I think i'm much cooler than freddie, he's still on windows! How about takin takin a shower n grabbin a mug of coffee before i start using the system? sounds good? well, that's what i did.. Freshened up from the shower-coffee combo, i pressed on the power button full of zeal. "welcome to openSUSE 10.3", Feels great ! :)
Here's the part where i type in my username n password, oh no, another issue? This time, the system returned me back to the login screen. After a couple more of futile attemps and useless restarts, i tried the failsafe mode. Ok, here i have the $ prompt (shell, console, whateva).. ray of hope.. # startx and.. no, xserver crashed with 3 pages full of error reports and hexadecimal numbers (Linux sure is stable you see, they have kept the (arguably unstable, as in my case) "x" out of it, end result? when x crashes, you still have the unix prompt, something like "safe mode with command prompt", or more appropriately, something like the XP recovery console prompt,present in windows too, but then of course, the linux prompt is stronger, you can search for files with a special sequence of charactors in the 8th para n ftp them accross, all from the prompt, while windows allows "fixmbr", "fixboot", "chkdsk" and such recovery commands, but hey-that's what i need now!!).
Okay, but I won't give up, being new to linux, every little advancement appeared to motivate me, until i gave up and deleted the limited account and created a new acount from root. The new account worked fine, i restarted the system about 2-3 times just to make sure. Great, I finally have a working linux system. Installing limewire and yahoo messenger was a piece of cake, although the yahoo messenger available for linux is a joke compared to the yahoo messenger for windows in terms of features, appearence, and almost everything you could possibly think of.. It's late, i need to go out to bob's place, he's organized a re-unite party.
3 hours of pure fun with old friends and i'm back home. Linux time again.. Hit the power button, "welcome to openSUSE 10.3, enter limited account password, and.." nothing.. X server crashed again.. Logged in as root (x worked fine from root), looked up the log files, nothing significant, almost nothing in human readable form in there. Checked HDD free space, 46GB free on /, no home partition. Everything appears perfect. Disabled 3d support and retried, no go- the same error persists.. Downloaded and tried a few othe drivers, nothing worked until monday, the next day-when i suddenly found a magic cure to all my ailments. Still wondering what? Well, i re-installed windows XP pro. Shortcut to success.. :)
No hard feelings, I'm not a linux hater, it's just too difficult for a fool like me..
Just wanted to say
Just wanted to say congratulations on trying that long. When I tried SuSE, I didn't last anywhere near that long. Eventually, I'm sure, you'll be like I was and think "what if I installed it on a 10GB partition... I don't have to use it every day, just play with it? Yeah, I can do that - just to prove I'm capable of getting this working..." And you know, I'm sure you'll find out you are.
The facts of the Linux
The facts of the Linux learning curve.
There is no learning curve with linux. None at all! Stop saying there is one.
What the learning curve is, is adjustment time. Linux is not much harder than Windows, it different. Just because you can drive a car does not make you a motorcycle driver. And that is why people do not like Linux. They feel since they can drive a car (use windows) they can use a motorcycle (linux) when they can't. So when learning a motorcycle takes time they give up not realizing all of the advantages.
Think about it this way. Say we found people who never used a computer, ever and tell half of them to use linux and the other half windows. When they are an expert in the operating system they used, we tell them to switch. Both of them would be completely confused and take the same amount of time to learn the new operating system.
When we say installing things is easy on windows, remember the first time you installed something? Always afraid you will make a mistake by just clicking next. Then you are nervous of what happens if you click custom. Now after some time you can install anything. Same thing with linux at first you will have no idea but soon it will become much easier. All of the registry tweaks in windows you don't know on day one. It probably took you at least a year to know a few of them. Think of the time it takes to consider your self a windows expert without a class. Same with linux. It doesn't come out of the box with a person standing next to you teaching you all the tweaks. You need to take a long time of work to learn that. Finally if you have some kind of interest in computer, which you probably do to even know linux is a computer, then learning is the fun! Without learning what is there really to do at a computer?
In conclusion going from windows to Linux is hard but there is no learning curve, it is understanding time. Don't expect to become a linux expert in one day one a week and even a year.
Remember the fun of linux and really the whole point of open-source is to learn about programing and computers.
I quote:- "Without learning
I quote:-
"Without learning what is there really to do at a computer?"
Are you all INSANE!?
I've just had to check my calender, just to make sure I haven't been transported back through time, in some sort of star-trek-like quantum distortion. Is this 1985? Do I have to go to school on Monday? Is Thatcher still Prime Minister?
"Without learning what is there really to do at a computer?"
WHAT?
I really don't want to be impolite, truthfully. You're plainly an educated person, and I do not want to insult your intelligence. But: Have you ever actually USED windows? Haven't you got even the faintest idea what all the thousands of genius open-source programmers have been doing over there? Don't you know?
"Without learning what is there really to do at a computer?"
Honest to God, that astounds me, it truly astounds and infuriates me.
This forum is called 'why linux sucks'. And, frankly, that simple sentence illustrates precisely and wonderfully succinctly almost everything that truly, truly SUCKS with linux.
We should carve that sentence, in two-foot-high letters; "without learning what is there really to do at a computer?", and we should erect it for all to see above the doorway into Linux Land, so that all wanders who happen to pass by will be given fair warning about just how terrifyingly puritanical and neophobic the inhabitants therein truly are.
Seriously: if you know anyone who's foolishly contemplating switching to linux, just sit them down and read them the above comment. "Without learning what is there really to do at a computer?"
I... I...I just can't believe it...I really can't.
MS-DOS allowed you to learn.
MS-DOS allowed you to learn. Commodore 64's really allowed you to learn. It came with a good manual and you could start writing programs for it straight away.
Linux however, requires you to learn how to install programs the hard way, how to deal with resolving difficult dependency issues because the software author didn't take into account that those obscure libraries are not commonly used, or generally doing WORK that should have been done by others.
Doing WORK getting something to function is not the same as learning about your computer. The hours I've spent trying to get some program to compile, or install a truckload of dependancies taught me nothing useful. Editing .config files only teach me about that one particular piece of software, which I didn't want to get to intimately know.
If I buy a car, I like to learn how the engine works, or how to change the oil, but I don't want to have to figure out how to get the radio to store presets by typing in arcane codes, or having to figure out myself that the car will only start of the air-con is set to low and the windshield wipers set to intermittent.
What are you talking
What are you talking about?
Ubuntu is based on Debian and Debian packages have all dependencies provided to you. It just pulls in what it needs.
Try that with Windows. Try that with OS X!
Hell, I do have some gripes with Linux (sound *sucks*) but overall if you try writing actual applications or be any productive, Linux is by far the best.
I once tried making my app work in OS X that required some 3rd party open source dependencies. So I figured I'll just download that and compile. Guess what?? It took 10 hours and I was 5 deep in the dependency chain. That's where I gave up. Essentially OS X is worthless wrt open source development (unless using Apple's API only). Windows is unusable without Cygwin. And both are worthless due to shitty or no multi-workspace support (ie. virtual workspace)
Modern distros like Debian are light years ahead of Windows / OS X world in terms power and usability. Linux may have its learning curve, but if you go from Linux to Windows/OS X, it is impossible to dumb yourself down enough to those interfaces.
What Debian does, is hide
What Debian does, is hide the dependancy mess from the user. If I write a simply app on my older Linux box and compile it, will an Ubuntu Manic Monkey use be able to run it? Or will they need to recompile it or wait for someone to package it for them?
apt-get/yum etc are all useless for software not in the repositories. So no, its only easy in some cases. Now, if I have to restrict my software choice to whats available in the repositories, that's not real freedom, is it? If I'm a big time developer, or a software company, I can rely on someone re-packaging my software, or making it universally installable. but if I just write a simple 'deal or no deal' game? I think that any Linux user should be free to go to my website, and download it and run it. How would I ensure that?
I'm trying to get up and
I'm trying to get up and running with Kubuntu, and I'm having major problems trying to do simple tasks like have my desktop stretch across two monitors or enable "desktop effects".
There's a simple to use GUI for the latter, which I like. Unfortunately it doesn't work. Checking the box results in a black and white screen for 20 seconds until it times out and resets itself. Posting on forums resulted in people telling me to type an essay into xorg.conf files or the terminal. I'm not exactly against this per se, I like learning. But I'm installing linux because I wanted to learn about Ruby, and at first glance it seemed to be a good idea. Linux is holding me back from my goals because it's taking me so long to set up (I've almost given up). I mean, with the Windows ati drivers my mother figured it out. She was scared of pressing the buttons until I confirmed they were the right ones, but she had picked the right ones. Not a chance in linux. I guess it's more ATI's fault than linux though, so maybe I shouldn't rant about it like it is linux's?
Installing the ATI drivers using apt-get was nice and easy - I think. I'm not actually certain they were installed, there was no feedback, and can't find anything resembling a configuration utility for them. It did change something though... I no longer get both monitors listed in my Display settings.
Even before I got the drivers (and after), if I set my resolution to 1680x1050 the desktop wallpaper tiles for some reason, even though it's set not to, and worse, the little "Add Plasmoid" thingo in the top right corner appears in the corner of both the first tile of the wallpaper and the actual corner of the screen. Weird.
Five minutes with Konqueror showed that it was clearly inferior to Firefox, but I did find installing Firefox 3 very simple and smooth (although it doesn't look as good as my windows version and I haven't figured out how to fix it yet. The comboboxes all look Win 3.1ish for some reason).
So... from my own experience using the latest version of linux I could find - linux is a LOT harder to set up, with less support and documentation. I'm still holding on to hope that it will be good to actually work with once I can set it up though... If anybody would like to help me get to the point where my desktop is as productive / useable as my XP one (multiple monitors, one widescreen; so different resolutions needed), that would be great. You can email me at peregrinati@hotmail.com
You are just too funny...
You are just too funny... Seems like you have been living in the woods for the last few years..
Lets talk about just Ubuntu...
1. You do not need to know a single command if you don't want to. Everything from software updates to system-configuration is available via the "easy to use" gui's. I myself prefer command-line since i know what i'm doing and it goes faster instead of clicking in 10 different windows just to change a simple setting.. But as said, it's optional
2. And lol about the software quality-statement... How come i never have had a system-crash or needed to reboot when installing some simple application in linux but when doing something similar in windows it always wants to reboot or crash...
That statement is utterly and complete FUD!
3. Customizing is good... My dad don't have a clue about how to do anything on a computer (even have problems understanding a folder-structure)...
What i did for him was to install ubuntu + the supplied digikam support etc.
Now all he has to do to get all images imported into the gallery (and automatically uploaded to a ftp-server) is plugin the camera and wait for the progress-window to close... Everything except the automatic ftp-sync was already included in Ubuntu.
4. They are not poor clones of windows... Actually Windows have been stealing most things from Apple and originally from Xerox so... Xerox/Apple/AmigaOS was way ahead on the current window-design, and it seems to be the easiest to use atm... And btw, have a look at the videos of "compiz" on youtube and then compare that to vista... And also remember that you can run compiz on a P3@1Ghz/256Mb-ram with any old 3d-capable card...
5. Viruses and worms do exists for gnu/linux systems but they are quite rare since security-holes are fixed quite fast and these systems don't usually come with every service available started like in windows.. Ie we don't expose every single hole automatically so less chance for a worm to spread. And if a virus then those would first need to gain root (administrator on a unix system) before it can spread to other users on the system.
6. And the same can be said for free windows-support-forums =)... And there is commercial support available from a number of different companies..
7. Doing a Ubuntu install is faster and requires less user-interaction than doing a windows xp/vista install.. (and you already have all drivers included on the install cd)
"automatic or manual partitioning, ask what keyboard you have and what language you want to use, ask what timezone, ask what username you want and done... takes less than 10-15 minutes while a vista install easily takes up to an hour...
So before writing such statements please get you facts straight and stop writing FUD......
I don't say that Ubuntu is better than windows but I'm saying that for some tasks a Ubuntu system is better and for some a windows system is better and for allot of tasks it does not matter what you choose. (except for the price/price for future upgrades and stability)
WINDOWS SUCKS. It really
WINDOWS SUCKS. It really really does. And i finally decided to replace the windows XP operating system on my 4 years old desktop (P4@2.4GHz,1MB,D865GBF,533MHzFSB,512MB DDR). I'd like to take this opportunity to reveal my experiences.
It's a sunday, no work, no friends around, just the perfect day to WASTE a lot of time re-inventing the wheel, and i'm fast to act on the opportunity after deferring my intentions for quite some time now. Let's get started..
Installation done(of-course i had to take the pain of resolving a million dependancies), and here he is, in all his glory, greeting me for the first time "welcome to openSUSE10.3". Now this is the part where it asks you to select the graphics drivers and resolutions, i select the older intel driver at 1024 x 786//60Hz, and it asks me to reboot(just as in windows). Rebooting.. Oh no, where on earth did i go wrong? The screen that comes up doesn't fill the display, it's like i have the PC running on my cell fone's screen! Okay, let's try to fix this, being new to linux I'm not very confidant about monkeying around with the command line interpreator, but thankfully i spotted ‘yast’. Okay, wonderful, they do have a button to configure my video driver, even better, the tool detected my intel graphics hardware and the make n model of my monitor too!! WOW, GOOD JOB. The resolution's set to exactly what i chose, 1024 x 786 at 60Hz, everything's perfect but for the actual display.. No, I won't give up this easy. Desperate, i started toying around with the settings, if the perfect setting didn't work, maybe an imperfect would.. A couple of misfires and then.. BINGO, THERE IT IS,it works if i select generic vesa instead of LG 500G (my monitors model no, printed on it's back and auto-detected by the OS). Dumb, but then-it's a sunday and i have nothing else to do !!
Now, we're almost done aren't we? I just need to create a new non-administrator account ("non-root" if that's what you people like to call it).Done, next? Hook up to the internet. I use my nokia N95 as a wireless modem, and in windows i load the nokia PC suite, select my country, select my network operator, and click "connect".
In linux, this is what I had to had to go thru:
(step-1):
# hcitool scan
(step-2):
#sdptool browse and see which channel is assigned to the service "Dial Up networking"
(step-3)
#rfcomm bind 0
(step-4):
#chdir /etc, vi wvdial.conf
(step 5):
NOW TYPE IN:
[Modem0]
Modem = /dev/rfcomm0
Baud = 230400
SetVolume = 0
DialCommand = ATDT
FlowControl = Hardware(CRTSCTS)
[Modem1]
Modem = /dev/ttyACM0
Baud = 230400
SetVolume = 0
DialCommand = ATDT
FlowControl = Hardware(CRTSCTS)
[Dialer GPRS]
Username = <>
Password = <>
Phone = *99***1#
Mode = 1
Inherits = Modem0
[Dialer DATA]
Username = <>
Password = <>
Phone = *99***1#
Mode = 1
Inherits = Modem1
[Dialer Defaults]
Modem = /dev/rfcomm0
Baud = 230400
Init1 = ATZ
Init2 = ATQ0 V1 E1 S0=0 &C1 &D2 +FCLASS=0
Init3 = AT+CGDCONT=1,"IP","airtelgprs.com"
ISDN = 0
Modem Type = Analog Modem
Area Code =
Phone = *99***1#
Username = <>
Password = <>
Ask Password = 0
Dial Command = ATDT
Stupid Mode = 1
Compuserve = 0
Force Address =
Idle Seconds = 3600
DialMessage1 =
DialMessage2 =
ISDN = 0
Auto DNS = 1
step 6:
when dialing via Bluetooth, #sudo wvdial GPRS
and when dialing over the USB cable, #sudo wvdial DATA
SUCCESS AT LAST.
WOW, there's firefox, and here comes google, sure that was easy, linux is getting easier by the day, and the all powerful command prompt is much better than the windows GUI, and it's a SUNDAY, no work-lotsa time to play.
Okay, so I finally kissed bill goodbye. Feels great, I think i'm much cooler than freddie, he's still on windows! How about takin takin a shower n grabbin a mug of coffee before i start using the system? sounds good? well, that's what i did.. Freshened up from the shower-coffee combo, i pressed on the power button full of zeal. "welcome to openSUSE 10.3", Feels great ! :)
Here's the part where i type in my username n password, oh no, another issue? This time, the system returned me back to the login screen. After a couple more of futile attemps and useless restarts, i tried the failsafe mode. Ok, here i have the $ prompt (shell, console, whateva).. ray of hope.. # startx and.. no, xserver crashed with 3 pages full of error reports and hexadecimal numbers (Linux sure is stable you see, they have kept the (arguably unstable, as in my case) "x" out of it, end result? when x crashes, you still have the unix prompt, something like "safe mode with command prompt", or more appropriately, something like the XP recovery console prompt,present in windows too, but then of course, the linux prompt is stronger, you can search for files with a special sequence of charactors in the 8th para n ftp them accross, all from the prompt, while windows allows "fixmbr", "fixboot", "chkdsk" and such recovery commands, but hey-that's what i need now!!).
Okay, but I won't give up, being new to linux, every little advancement appeared to motivate me, until i gave up and deleted the limited account and created a new acount from root. The new account worked fine, i restarted the system about 2-3 times just to make sure. Great, I finally have a working linux system. Installing limewire and yahoo messenger was a piece of cake, although the yahoo messenger available for linux is a joke compared to the yahoo messenger for windows in terms of features, appearence, and almost everything you could possibly think of.. It's late, i need to go out to bob's place, he's organized a re-unite party.
3 hours of pure fun with old friends and i'm back home. Linux time again.. Hit the power button, "welcome to openSUSE 10.3, enter limited account password, and.." nothing.. X server crashed again.. Logged in as root (x worked fine from root), looked up the log files, nothing significant, almost nothing in human readable form in there. Checked HDD free space, 46GB free on /, no home partition. Everything appears perfect. Disabled 3d support and retried, no go- the same error persists.. Downloaded and tried a few othe drivers, nothing worked until monday, the next day-when i suddenly found a magic cure to all my ailments. Still wondering what? Well, i re-installed windows XP pro. Shortcut to success.. :)
No hard feelings, I'm not a linux hater, it's just too difficult for a fool like me..
Linux configuration is NOT
Linux configuration is NOT possible if you don't know how to do it ahead of time (and are just shy of a computer genius). Video resolution an insurmountable problem in the 21st century? Just how do you add a user to sudo? Could there possible be more ways to waste time? I've been a linux/unix/windows/mac guy over the past years. Windows (especially XP) DOES NOT CRASH unless you do really stupid things to it. Real computer professionals also have to work in the real world, and it is a windows world like it or not. When Linux (ha!) (or MAC) has as big a user base as windows, let's see how these vendors deliver a "commodity" product.
If these operating systems were a tenth as popular as windows, we would see the virus floodgates open wide.
I would love to use Linux, but the learning curve (other than surfing and emailing) is absolutely counter productive.
"Just how do you add a user
"Just how do you add a user to sudo?"
add them to the admin group - its rather easy, and theirs a GUI.
i honestly never heard of
i honestly never heard of linux till i heard they got adobe flashplayer 9 and how adobe wouldnt care if psp took it